Thursday, February 28, 2008

Hello bandwagon, I'm here.

Ok everyone has an opinion and I am no exception.

1. I agree with Matthew Hayden, but
2. He was out of line. He was
3. Punished accordingly and accepted it. (Novel idea, huh?)
4. What he said was not a racial slur, however
5. He should have waited until he retired to say it, or
6. Just left out the "obnoxious little weed" bit, because
7. Otherwise his point was valid. He was damn right about Harbhajan's record speaking for itself, and
8. Apparently Harbhajan has the worst record of any cricketer, ever.
Sigh. Roll on Sunday.

On a happier note, my second-favourite-Aussie-but-not-for-much-longer submitted his gloves for inspection because he was concerned they were illegal, because his gloves are made by the same company that make Dhoni's gloves. What a star. That's why...

33 comments:

The Atheist said...

It was my understanding that Australian players are contractually obliged not to demean their opponents in public. (Ha!) So I thought that it was a mainly legal issue, or, at least, an employment-related matter.

Why everyone is jumping up and down about a mild and true statement, when we all know the terrible things that players say to each on the field I have no idea.

Think of the children.

Suave said...

I'd like to see them both in a ring, with a pack of hungry lions.

Let's see them sledge their way out of that!

Miss Field said...

Yes, that's what I meant when I said he was out of line. He is bloody right, but rules are rules. That's how I see it at least.

And you're right about the children. I don't want my kids growing up in a world where Greedo shot first, and this is just the same!

Straight Point said...

atheist...

so you don't understand the difference between what said in field and what you say on air...?? good...

and for dhoni gloves MF would you care to visit homer blog...

Golandaaz said...

It's bigger than just legal and contractual rules. When sportsmen go on public forums calling opposing players names like "weed" and such it leaves a bad taste. What is said on the field is allright as long as it stays on the field.

The issue is not whether he has rights and laws on his side. Every one has the right to speech in most countries. It is the constraint one demonstrates in using this freedom.

My assessment of Hayden's latest statement is that it was a bit irresponsible.

Golandaaz said...

You say in #8

Apparently Harbhajan has the worst record of any cricketer, ever.
Sigh. Roll on Sunday.

African Americans have the worst criminal convictions record in the US. They also believe they are unfairly prosecuted.

Not everything is as simple as "record speaks for itself".

palscape said...

Ummmm.....a few points if I may:

first, a little research (novel idea, aint it?) will reveal that Ponting has the same number of convictions as Harbhajan.

second, I have no problem really with the weed statement. Its as obnoxious and farty abuse as I have ever heard, right there with 'i drive a Porche, what do you drive'...

third, Hayden's mocking of Ishant and boxing ring comment was totally crass...I am not sure how anyone can defend that.

fourth, gilly and lee are the best there is in the current Aussie team. classy - both in the way they play and act.

finally, I doubt there is a moral absolute in racism, whats racist and insulting to one could be different for another. Symmo himself has said that he doesnt mind certain racist comments as long as it is from friends. How can you conclude that Harbhajan or Ishant did not feel racially insulted by Hayden's comment ?

palscape said...

btw, for all those judging this incident by whats been written abou it in the media, here is the actual interview: http://www.triplem.com.au/brisbane/sport/haydenspray.html

Listen in and judge for yourself. I have to agree that Hayden was being goaded into saying a few things for ratings. But he is a veteran and should know better.

Miss Field said...

Palscape, because contrary to the monkey shit, it wasn't intended as a racial insult. And bollocks to anyone who tells me the Indians didn't mean it racially. Hop over to Flintoff's Ashes and see what Mike wrote, and I say, what he said.

Golandaaz, you're right, but I hope you're not comparing Harbhajan Singh to the plight of the African Americans.

palscape said...

Personally, I dont think either obnoxious weed or the mocking of Indian accent is racist. But I cannot claim to vouch for others. For example plenty of Indians are offended by the Apu character in Simpsons! Go figure.

Additionally, I find it perplexing that most Australian commentators are rushing to absolve Hayden of anything remotely racist, while they had jumped on any Indians trying to rationalize during the Symonds issue (in India).

I have no doubt that the crowd at Mumbai was definitely racist when they were chanting. But I could give a benefit of doubt of to the first few spectators who said 'monkey with the argument that the word monkey is usually not used racially in India. But that would be 'bollocks'!

So I will leave it as a racial relativism.

Miss Field said...

Yeah, bollocks to the world!

Hey, straight point, I did indeed see Homer's excellent post about wicketkeeper gloves, and I did indeed comment in reply with my two cents.

Straight Point said...

thanks MF...i saw that...

no points for guessing who first observed the dhoni's gloves on air!!

Miss Field said...

I don't know about gloves, and Homer's post is awesome... but I thought the gloves in question looked a bit different.

Guess not :)

Golandaaz said...

Miss,

No I am not comparing their plights. Rather I am pointing out that there are many in India who believe that the subcontinental teams have not wisened up to using the ICC laws as a weapon.

What Australia and Ponting have done is that they are not only great cricketwise but also fully understand the laws that are available to them and enforce it time to time.

I am sick of my team whining outside of the framework of the ICC laws. Unless we learn on how to exercise our rights given by the ICC Australia will keep our disiplinary record poor.

I would love to see how India compares against Australia in filing for a formal complaint.

If I were Dhoni instead of falling for Aussie provokation, I would take each and every such instance to the match referee.

Anonymous said...

Honestly, who cares what Matthew Hayden says?

In any other series, NO ONE WOULD CARE what Matthew Hayden said.

I mean... it's Matthew Hayden. It's Matthew Hayden. It's Matthew Hayden.

It's sad that due to the excess of bad blood in this series, people forget this pertinent fact.

What has the world come to when people start listening to Matthew Hayden?

Brisbane said...

Suave, you and I both know Matthew Hayden is God.

Q said...

Monkey is not a racial slur in India or any part of the subcontinent - neither in Pak, SL, or Bang. It never was and never will be.

In an average household in the subcontinent, any kid who is acting up, is usually referred to as "bandar ke bache", which translated means "son of a monkey" - that is how light hearted calling someone a monkey is in our part of the world.

Miss Field, yourself and the Aussies need to understand this - that the Indians and many of us have no idea how 'Monkey' can be a racial slur.

Honestly speaking, I had to be explained by someone else as to why Symonds or anyone else in Australia will consider it to be a racial slur.

Now If an educated professional soul like me didn't initially understand what was racial about 'monkey', how can the average relatively less educated population of India and Pakistan - i.e. the common man in villages and rural areas.

Brisbane said...

That's bullshit Q.

I'm willing to accept that you are not racist but to throw that same blanket over those racists in the crowds that chanted and made monkey gestures is just laughable.

What next; Indians can't be racist or racism doesn't exist in the sub continent.

Or casteism is a benign form of social cohesion that all participants agree to.

Ignorance is not a defence and actively denying it is offensive.

Q said...

Hi Brisbane.

I don't think its bullshit nor do I think that racism doesn't exist in the subcontinent nor do I say that Indians cannot be racist.

I was just trying to get the point across so the Australians can understand where the Indians were coming from.

I'm Pakistani and a neutral observer and I already mentioned that initially I did not understand why 'monkey' was racist. I do now because I have been explained why it is such by Brits and Aussies around me in the Middle East. In the same manner, I was able to explain to them why the Indians and other subcontinental people would think otherwise.

Pakistan's literacy rate is 50%, India's is 61%. A good majority of this literate population understood why 'monkey' was racist when explanations were provided. But surely u can't expect the 50% illiterate in Pakistan and 39% in India (which sums to a good 500 million people) to understand that.

Moreover how can you when the word 'monkey' is used light heartedly by parents when referring to their extra hyper kids?

Please read this old blog by one of my fellow bloggers, also a Pakistani and a neutral obersber:

http://www.wellpitched.com/2008/01/deconstructing-sydney.html

Cheers mate.

Miss Field said...

I cannot believe that people chanting monkey and gesturing were light heartedly referring to Andrew Symonds as hyperactive.

It is inconceivable that they simply did not know better. They were abusing him based on judgements they made of his looks.

Maybe it had to be explained to a lot of people why it was offensive, but the people who were doing it (and Harbhajan Singh) knew exactly what they were doing.

Q said...

"Maybe it had to be explained to a lot of people why it was offensive, but the people who were doing it (and Harbhajan Singh) knew exactly what they were doing." - that is probably a fair statement.

But then again, the first time it happened in India, the people might not have known it until told so the 2nd time in Bhajji's case made it inexcusable.

Definitely it was a reference to Symonds looks but u need to understand the cultural divide where even the reference to a South Indian as "kaala", i.e. Black is not deemed racist - but taken in a light hearted manner in most cases.

Calling someone a bastard in india or pakistan will get more people offended then calling them black.

Brisbane said...

So why then did Darren Lehman get charged with racial abuse when he called some Sri's black c*nts.

If calling someone black is not racist the addition of c*nts is surely then not racist.

"Miss Field, yourself and the Aussies need to understand this - that the Indians and many of us have no idea how 'Monkey' can be a racial slur." - Q

I have no idea why the word Kafir is racist either nor have I ever heard one of my friends using that term. However I don't think if I used it on a Saffa I could say my ignorance was a defence.

Q said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Q said...

Brisbane, I meant that majoriy of the people would not consider black as a racist remark, in Lehmann' case it was obviously otherwise.

U see I haven't been trying to defend Harbhajhan or the Indians by saying they were ignorant. I have been trying to get the point across as to why many of us in the subcontinent needed to be explained why "monkey" was racist, so you should understand why some people may not have known how serious the remark was when they were chanting it. :-)

And as I said th 2nd time by Bhajji was inexcusable because he would have been told the 1st time that it was racist remark. However, the 1st time he probably did not know.

As for Kafir - it means nonbeliever with respect to religion. Mostly used by Muslims to refer to Non-Muslims. Racist or not I don't know but definitely Religiousist / Islamist :-)

Brisbane said...

Q I think I understand where you are coming from.

You need to understand that after the monkey abuse against Symonds in India;

the outright refusal to even at first acknowledge it happened (by Indians and the BCCI),

then the ridiculous attempts to either deny it was racist (chants to Hanuman etc), or

that people didn't intend it to be racist (they were just chiding him like a kid) is a pathetic dishonest pattern of behaviour from some Indians.

And I find that you popping up and adding your two cents only serves to provide succour to racists or ignorants. Neither of which deserve it.

Q said...

Done with my 2 cents Brisbane :-)

Did not mean to offend, harm, or hurt anyone's feelings.

Cheers.

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Brisbane said...

Sorry Q, your two cents is always welcome and worth infinitely more.

It's just in this case I think it's more important to focus not on excuses valid or not but ways forward.

Q said...

Thanks Brisbane and agreed :-)

John Arul Prakash said...

Miss Field seems to be a silly little Aussie gal who goes "woohoo woohoo I'm blind like poo"
Is it an Aussie thing or is it just Miss Field who is totally blind to their self-important hypocritical selves?
An opinionated girl who likes cricket... Interesting. Only thing she is blind as a bat when it comes to anything un-Aussie.
Waiting for the day I meet an Aussie who knows something about the rest of the world...

Miss Field said...

Hey John Arul Prakash, thanks for your comment, but I'm wondering if you have a constructive point to make, or if you're just so surprised that women in some corners of the world do more than iron their husbands' shirts.

Speaking of, I'm torn. What should I do next, make my husband's dinner or do a bit more prancing and chanting 'woohoo woohoo I'm blind like poo'. Life's full of tough choices.

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